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 FSSPX et Maconnerie

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Nordland
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Nombre de messages : 854
Date d'inscription : 25/08/2006

MessageSujet: FSSPX et Maconnerie   Sam 20 Déc - 21:41

Society of St. Pius X Masonic

(letter 1/29/97 of Christopher Shannon, known for his sheet, The Spark.)

Personal Witness. me.

Rogation Days, Mon, Tues, Wed of 5th week after Easter, Year 1972, Econe-Sion, Switzerland. The two towns are only a few blocks apart. Procession through Econe-Sion from his seminary. Masonic band formed in front, lead (sic) whole procession. Very disturbing! I was in procession, most uncomfortable. Never heard of such a thing. Later, back in US, on TV saw other European processions lead (sic) by bands. Why. Why a band? Playing band music. Why? Processions are lead (sic) by the Crucifix, NOT a 15 piece band! … anyway. I asked people in the procession what is going on here? They all said it’s the Sion Masonic band. Lefebvre is a Mason, it’s OK. Since I hadn’t yet really dug into the Masonic issue, Jewish issue, Conspiracy issue – This certainly got me started!

I was in Econe-Sion, 2 months, by this time very nervous about what to do if they accepted me. I went there uncomfortable to begin with, something strange about Lefebvre, Econe, his Roman connections.
Anyway I figured if they took me in permanently, I’d finish the course if I could (I didn’t like the Masonic thing). Finish, be ordained, it a few years, being a nice guy for them, then bolt the Society. My goal was ordination whatever the cost, as long as it didn’t cost me my soul. [The ordination Pius XII cooked?]

Then two things came together. I was getting more nervous about Masonry and Econe being right in the middle of it — Sion, Switzerland, I learned while there, was a major European Center of Freemasonry. … How did I discover all this? Again, people there told me! No mystery or digging required. Strange.

He was ordained by a known Masonic Cardinal Achille Lienhart (sic) of whom I heard when I was in Fatima, but that is another story. I met Lienhart in Fatima 2 years before, where he met with others among whom I also happened to be seeking a finish to my seminary career.

Coincidence, but an instructive one.

Already I was seeking a higher path. The religious orders I was in and out of, about 6 of them were closer to the contemplative style I thought I was seeking & this kind of pursuit is OK in Canon Law, upward, upward, is why I was allowed to leave one and join another.

I suppose you would rather read something exposing the Masonic origins of Society of St. Pius X.

My answer to this is it has to be written yet and I don’t know who will – books at this point are not my style. Maybe some one has. I doubt it. Others have already exposed the Society in bits and pieces. No books I am aware of.

And this. Follow the money trail. I suspect the bulk of the funds are from Rome.

and this. Rome. Lefebvre made frequent trips to Rome while I was with him (I sat next to him at the dinner table). All of these were cordial, not combative, or argumentative, as most would believe. He was simply arranging strategies under the leadership of his Roman bosses. How do I know this, too? He told me.

The man’s a devil (was, he’s dead). Benign saintly smile. The sugar, the poison was instilled in the process and grows, and grows, until the harvest. [End of quotation]

I have maintained for years that Lefebvre was a Freemason.

I have sat on this letter for more than two years. I put it out now mostly to see how quickly John Cooke and Georges de Nantes will back off their astounding new discovery.

Question—Why do I believe Marcel Lefebvre was a Freemason?

Answer—In 1976, when I still corresponded regularly with him through his seminary student, Gerard Hogan, I came across evidence of Paul VI’s membership in a Roman lodge. I pursued it as far as I could, but could not confirm it. I then wrote Econe, suggesting that since Lefebvre had a house near Rome, and that since Econe was closer to Rome than Australia, Lefebvre or some of his people could track this proof down. I pointed out the obvious effect such proof could have on the credibility of Vatican II and the whole Renewal. I never received a reply.

Four or five years later Father Brian Buckley told me of the former head of the French secret police, Bernard Fay, who had taken advantage of the chaos attendant upon the German withdrawal from Paris during World War II to raid all the Masonic lodges and confiscate their files. For this DeGaulle ordered Fay shot on sight, so he resided in Switzerland. He came to Econe six weeks each year to instruct the students on Freemasonry. He was dead two years when I first heard of him, but he had lived two or three years past the date that I had written Lefebvre and Hogan on Paul VI’s Roman lodge membership.

The absolute least that Lefebvre or Hogan should have done was to introduce me to Bernard Fay, to allow further investigation. Everyone to whom I have mentioned this affair has agreed that Lefebvre and Hogan were so obliged. There is good reason to believe that Lefebvre knew of Paul VI’s connection with Freemasonry. He had spoken of this “earth-shaking” weapon he held against Rome, though he died without using it. In impeding this investigation Lefebvre acted in at least two ways like a Freemason.

Query—Were he a Freemason could he permit Bernard Fay to instruct his seminarians in the dangers from Freemasonry?

Retort—Could he prevent Fay’s program without betraying his own membership?

I know this does not constitute proof. But such things have a tendency to accumulate and confirm one another.

The item requiring confirmation was the statement of a highly credible non-Catholic clergyman that he had seen a photocopied page from the membership register of a Masonic lodge in Rome on which was inscribed the name or signature “Giambattista Montini.” My informant had seen this years before. He was, however, not in charge of the file, and none of his group realized the sensational import of this piece of paper. We both spent considerable time trying to find the other members of his group. Two were dead. Two inquiries were returned undelivered. We never heard from the other two. I believe the man’s testimony. I have never advanced this as proof because it is legal hearsay to me, and double hearsay to my readers. If any of you can confirm anything like this, I’ll very happily publish it.

Source : THE ENEMY IS STILL HERE de Hutton Gibson, pages 110-112. Téléchargeable gratuitement sur www.huttongibson.com
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Francis
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Nombre de messages : 983
Localisation : Canada-français
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2006

MessageSujet: Re: FSSPX et Maconnerie   Dim 21 Déc - 2:42

Nordland a écrit:
Society of St. Pius X Masonic

(letter 1/29/97 of Christopher Shannon, known for his sheet, The Spark.)

Personal Witness. me.

Rogation Days, Mon, Tues, Wed of 5th week after Easter, Year 1972, Econe-Sion, Switzerland. The two towns are only a few blocks apart. Procession through Econe-Sion from his seminary. Masonic band formed in front, lead (sic) whole procession. Very disturbing! I was in procession, most uncomfortable. Never heard of such a thing. Later, back in US, on TV saw other European processions lead (sic) by bands. Why. Why a band? Playing band music. Why? Processions are lead (sic) by the Crucifix, NOT a 15 piece band! … anyway. I asked people in the procession what is going on here? They all said it’s the Sion Masonic band. Lefebvre is a Mason, it’s OK. Since I hadn’t yet really dug into the Masonic issue, Jewish issue, Conspiracy issue – This certainly got me started!

I was in Econe-Sion, 2 months, by this time very nervous about what to do if they accepted me. I went there uncomfortable to begin with, something strange about Lefebvre, Econe, his Roman connections.
Anyway I figured if they took me in permanently, I’d finish the course if I could (I didn’t like the Masonic thing). Finish, be ordained, it a few years, being a nice guy for them, then bolt the Society. My goal was ordination whatever the cost, as long as it didn’t cost me my soul. [The ordination Pius XII cooked?]

Then two things came together. I was getting more nervous about Masonry and Econe being right in the middle of it — Sion, Switzerland, I learned while there, was a major European Center of Freemasonry. … How did I discover all this? Again, people there told me! No mystery or digging required. Strange.

He was ordained by a known Masonic Cardinal Achille Lienhart (sic) of whom I heard when I was in Fatima, but that is another story. I met Lienhart in Fatima 2 years before, where he met with others among whom I also happened to be seeking a finish to my seminary career.

Coincidence, but an instructive one.

Already I was seeking a higher path. The religious orders I was in and out of, about 6 of them were closer to the contemplative style I thought I was seeking & this kind of pursuit is OK in Canon Law, upward, upward, is why I was allowed to leave one and join another.

I suppose you would rather read something exposing the Masonic origins of Society of St. Pius X.

My answer to this is it has to be written yet and I don’t know who will – books at this point are not my style. Maybe some one has. I doubt it. Others have already exposed the Society in bits and pieces. No books I am aware of.

And this. Follow the money trail. I suspect the bulk of the funds are from Rome.

and this. Rome. Lefebvre made frequent trips to Rome while I was with him (I sat next to him at the dinner table). All of these were cordial, not combative, or argumentative, as most would believe. He was simply arranging strategies under the leadership of his Roman bosses. How do I know this, too? He told me.

The man’s a devil (was, he’s dead). Benign saintly smile. The sugar, the poison was instilled in the process and grows, and grows, until the harvest. [End of quotation]

I have maintained for years that Lefebvre was a Freemason.

I have sat on this letter for more than two years. I put it out now mostly to see how quickly John Cooke and Georges de Nantes will back off their astounding new discovery.

Question—Why do I believe Marcel Lefebvre was a Freemason?

Answer—In 1976, when I still corresponded regularly with him through his seminary student, Gerard Hogan, I came across evidence of Paul VI’s membership in a Roman lodge. I pursued it as far as I could, but could not confirm it. I then wrote Econe, suggesting that since Lefebvre had a house near Rome, and that since Econe was closer to Rome than Australia, Lefebvre or some of his people could track this proof down. I pointed out the obvious effect such proof could have on the credibility of Vatican II and the whole Renewal. I never received a reply.

Four or five years later Father Brian Buckley told me of the former head of the French secret police, Bernard Fay, who had taken advantage of the chaos attendant upon the German withdrawal from Paris during World War II to raid all the Masonic lodges and confiscate their files. For this DeGaulle ordered Fay shot on sight, so he resided in Switzerland. He came to Econe six weeks each year to instruct the students on Freemasonry. He was dead two years when I first heard of him, but he had lived two or three years past the date that I had written Lefebvre and Hogan on Paul VI’s Roman lodge membership.

The absolute least that Lefebvre or Hogan should have done was to introduce me to Bernard Fay, to allow further investigation. Everyone to whom I have mentioned this affair has agreed that Lefebvre and Hogan were so obliged. There is good reason to believe that Lefebvre knew of Paul VI’s connection with Freemasonry. He had spoken of this “earth-shaking” weapon he held against Rome, though he died without using it. In impeding this investigation Lefebvre acted in at least two ways like a Freemason.

Query—Were he a Freemason could he permit Bernard Fay to instruct his seminarians in the dangers from Freemasonry?

Retort—Could he prevent Fay’s program without betraying his own membership?

I know this does not constitute proof. But such things have a tendency to accumulate and confirm one another.

The item requiring confirmation was the statement of a highly credible non-Catholic clergyman that he had seen a photocopied page from the membership register of a Masonic lodge in Rome on which was inscribed the name or signature “Giambattista Montini.” My informant had seen this years before. He was, however, not in charge of the file, and none of his group realized the sensational import of this piece of paper. We both spent considerable time trying to find the other members of his group. Two were dead. Two inquiries were returned undelivered. We never heard from the other two. I believe the man’s testimony. I have never advanced this as proof because it is legal hearsay to me, and double hearsay to my readers. If any of you can confirm anything like this, I’ll very happily publish it.

Source : THE ENEMY IS STILL HERE de Hutton Gibson, pages 110-112. Téléchargeable gratuitement sur www.huttongibson.com

Déjà posté ici-même ... (demandez à Credo)

Et l'abbé Grossin n'avait pas aimé !
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Martial Demolins
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Nombre de messages : 647
Date d'inscription : 17/03/2007

MessageSujet: Re: FSSPX et Maconnerie   Dim 21 Déc - 15:32

Il n'y a pas une version française de ce texte ? C'est très gênant de lire un tel texte quand on ne sait que traduire approximativement, on est pas sûr de la moitié de ce qu'on lit ... Sad
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Ar-Ka.
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Nombre de messages : 633
Date d'inscription : 27/08/2006

MessageSujet: Re: FSSPX et Maconnerie   Dim 21 Déc - 19:04

A ce sujet il faudrait, peut-être, prendre au sérieux certains faits relatés dans le fameux roman, "Da Vinci code" :

Le personnage central de ce roman est le dernier Grand Maître du prieuré de Sion qui se fait assassiner. Mitterrand fut membre de cet ordre secret de Grand Initiés (cf. « Minute » du 13 octobre 1993). A en croire La Montagne sacrée de Leigh, Lincoln et Baigent, parmi les derniers Grands maîtres figurent Léonard de Vinci, Victor Hugo, Debussy, Cocteau. Et depuis 1963, je vous le donne en mille : Monseigneur Ducaud-Bourget, lui-même... Tout un chapitre est consacré à ce prélat et à Monseigneur Lefebvre qui « détient un secret capital », « une arme capable d’ébranler le monde ». Et plus loin : « mais à qui lancera-t-il –ou a-t-il déjà lancé – cet ultime défi : faites- moi pape et je vous ferai roi ! » pages 195-199. Autrement dit par ce secret, Monseigneur Lefebvre aurait eu comme mission (occulte) de devenir pape pour restaurer la monarchie mérovingienne. Ainsi ceux qui prétendent que la Tradition est infiltrée de gnostiques auraient raison car leur chef de file en était un…


Laughing
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luernos
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Nombre de messages : 1588
Date d'inscription : 27/08/2006

MessageSujet: Re: FSSPX et Maconnerie   Dim 21 Déc - 19:59

Citation :
Ainsi ceux qui prétendent que la Tradition est infiltrée
Pourquoi pas ? A l'époque il y avait à Paris, Fançois Marty qui professait un messianisme de la classe ouvrière de type communiste, à coloration "évangélique" (seulement pour justifier sa présence de "curé")
et de l'autre, il y a avait les milieux sur la défensive confondant les traditions sociales, et l'une d'entre elles, une "tradition sacrée" , représentée par Ducaud-Bourget.
En fait, ce n'étaient que les représentants, qui traversent les siècles sou diverses apparences, de deux courants qui existent depuis le premier siècle: les ébionites et les gnostiques chrétiens, les individus passent, aujourd'hui 23 et Cellier. La "Tradition" nuit autant à l'Eglise catholique que son frère jumeau lepen nuit à la France.
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Nordland
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Nombre de messages : 854
Date d'inscription : 25/08/2006

MessageSujet: Re: FSSPX et Maconnerie   Lun 22 Déc - 0:17

Francis a écrit:


Déjà posté ici-même ... (demandez à Credo)

Et l'abbé Grossin n'avait pas aimé !

Ah... Et que n'aimait-il pas ?

Nordland

PS : Ce témoignage rapporté dans un livre de Hutton Gibson (qui me semble quelqu'un de sérieux) est tout de même étrange sur quelques points. Je n'imagine guère un orchestre maconnique devant une procession organisée par Ecône. C'est l'opinion de l'auteur du témoignage que Mgr Lefebvre ait été FM... Son opinion n'est pas suffisament étayée pour en conclure quoique ce soit de définitif. Cela reste au rang de l'opinion...
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Nordland
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Date d'inscription : 25/08/2006

MessageSujet: Re: FSSPX et Maconnerie   Lun 22 Déc - 0:19

Martial Demolins a écrit:
Il n'y a pas une version française de ce texte ? C'est très gênant de lire un tel texte quand on ne sait que traduire approximativement, on est pas sûr de la moitié de ce qu'on lit ... Sad

Vous pouvez toujours demander à La Porte Latine ou à DICI si ils possèdent une version francaise de ce texte.

Nordland
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Francis
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Date d'inscription : 12/10/2006

MessageSujet: Re: FSSPX et Maconnerie   Lun 22 Déc - 2:55

Nordland a écrit:
Francis a écrit:


Déjà posté ici-même ... (demandez à Credo)

Et l'abbé Grossin n'avait pas aimé !

Ah... Et que n'aimait-il pas ?

J'ai déjà traduit ce texte ici ... puis on l'a retiré par la suite !

L'abbé Grossin le jugea ridicule et propre à faire rigoler les idoles de Mgr ...
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Francis
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Nombre de messages : 983
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Date d'inscription : 12/10/2006

MessageSujet: Re: FSSPX et Maconnerie   Lun 22 Déc - 2:57

Nordland a écrit:

Vous pouvez toujours demander à La Porte Latine ou à DICI si ils possèdent une version francaise de ce texte.

Nordland

Pourquoi pas leur demander carrément si Mgr était FM tant qu'à y être ? bounce

J'vais demander à l'abbé Boulet tiens ... clown
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Martial Demolins
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Date d'inscription : 17/03/2007

MessageSujet: Re: FSSPX et Maconnerie   Lun 22 Déc - 3:27

Merci, je crois en effet que je m'abstiendrai de demander Very Happy
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Dominique
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Nombre de messages : 17
Localisation : France
Date d'inscription : 10/05/2007

MessageSujet: Où avez-vous trouvé ce texte?   Sam 31 Jan - 14:50

J'ai cherché sur le site de Gibson , je ne trouve pas.
J'ai fait une tentative de traduction rapide, mais je ne sais pas si Google aurait fait mieux.
Pourriez vous me donner un lien précis soit ici soit par MP
Merci.
D.
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